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Chapter numbers. Chapter numbers don’t go on until I’m sure all the chapters are there, in the right order (OK, MOSTLY sure.) Before that, chapters have a title, such as “Chapter: Kieri & Elves Talk History” (not actual title.) That way I can use a search on “Chapter” to find the beginnings of chapters, and the title tells me if I have the one I want. Chapter numbers change during the writing, as I may be off-chronology. Chapters are numbered now, all forty-one of them.
Other things: Spellchecking. Reading sections aloud, one chapter at a time (my voice wears out if I do too much at once) to catch typos spellcheck won’t and clumsy constructions. (Note–if I fix something, it needs another read through at least 12 hours later to be sure I didn’t leave a fossil of the original.) Continuity/consistency checks. Did someone pull out a sword from a scabbard, but clobber the attacker with a club? What happened to the sword? Where did the club come from? Clarity: I know the story well, but what I know about why someone did something is no help to the reader if it’s not actually in the words of the story.
And any fixes will require other fixes…as if the story were a mobile hanging by a thin wire from the reader’s mind. Take off that fish and put on a bison, and the mobile tilts. The bison won’t balance in place of the fish…so move the bison or add something else…which then tilts the mobile a different way. Not to mention that it’s really embarrassing when–after the thing is hung and apparently balancing, you notice the fish still on the table and know that the fish is essential to the design…and people start asking “But where’s the FISH?”
Then comes the last rub with the polishing cloth, to remove (the writer hopes) the smudgy marks from all the messing about. Editors will no doubt find more and point out where the writer should do more polishing. That’s their job. But I prefer them to say “It’s really clean but there’s this bit here,” rather than “I’m sorry, but there’s a lot more to be done.” (Among other things, the writer doesn’t get paid until the ms. is accepted, and accepted means there’s not much if anything more to be done before it goes to copy-editing. And on my publishing schedule, I need to be working on the next book, not spending more time fixing this one.)
Comment by Wickersham's Conscience — January 15, 2012 @ 1:49 pm
For those who don’t write: Polishing is the last and hardest bit of writing. It’s no fun; it’s hard, tedious work. And somewhat maddening, because it can be incredibly hard to find the kind of mistakes Ms. Moon describes.
Sometimes I think the best way to find errors is to read the published work.
Thanks for the insights into your approaches. And good news that Book IV is getting this close.
Comment by Kerry aka Trouble — January 15, 2012 @ 2:06 pm
I am also glad that Book IV is almost ready to go to the editor. Does it have a working title yet? ::bouncing with impatience, still a month and a half until I get my Echoes::
Comment by Rolv Olsen — January 15, 2012 @ 3:29 pm
My empathy.
I had the fun of seeing one book I edited coming by Christmas, and is anticipating the less joyful task of going through the finishing touches on another …
But, when that is done, I’ve only one book to work on, and that one’s voluntary.
Comment by Kathie G — January 15, 2012 @ 9:23 pm
I am fascinated by your terrific descriptions of how a writer goes about crafting a good book. My only forays in writing were five decades ago with some attempts in free verse — which were looked at kindly by a H.S. English teacher.
But, while I may not be able to write a gripping story, I *do* know how to read and cherish one! And, Elizabeth, your books are definitely among the cherished (and re-read) — starting with Sheepfarmer’s Daughter way back when it was first released.
Comment by Xany — January 16, 2012 @ 12:06 am
Offtopic question: what happened to the Verrakaien that Dorrin shipped off with the Royal Guard?
I just reread the books recently and there was an allusion to them all being killed, and then later on a conversation that seemed to imply the King hadn’t done anything with (to?) them yet.
Comment by elizabeth — January 16, 2012 @ 12:14 am
Xany: In the end they were all killed. Mikeli did not have them all executed at once, but as attacks on his family and his friends continued (not all mentioned in the book–there’s this length thing), and with the danger of Verrakaien invading other people (like the hapless groom) he changed his mind.
Kathie: Thanks! About writing books–not all writers do it the same way. The more organized are sure that we “discovery” writers would be more efficient if we’d only learn to outline and storyboard and so on…but having tried that method (including with two novels that died before reaching mid-book) I’m convinced that for me, my approach works best. It’s certainly not the only way.
Comment by elizabeth — January 16, 2012 @ 3:16 am
Kerry: Unfortunately, Book IV does not have a working title yet, let alone a publishable one. The latter would be really handy to have on the manuscript when I turn it in. Titles in groups of books should, ideally, have some similarity of prosody as well as a “theme” across the group and titles that fit the genre or subgenre. The group so far has the form “Noun-of-Noun” and I would like to stick with that. Blasts from the Past, though perhaps accurate, would be a lousy title for an epic fantasy book–too contemporary. Winds of Change might do, but it’s more like tornados, and Whirlwinds of Change is…just not right. It’s a fairly complicated book, as the penultimate volumes often are, with any previous stability collapsing and increasing the chaos that (if I hold it together) the final book will reorganize into the climax and resolution. (“Fairly complicated” is…um…an understatement. Forty-something chapters, several more viewpoints than originally intended, and no more room to maneuver in terms of wordage.)
Comment by elizabeth — January 16, 2012 @ 8:55 am
Forty-two chapters. Reading through the last third, discovered a chapter with no word “Chapter” in its description at the head thereof. This was at almost 3 am. And this morning discovered that I hadn’t put the “read more” divider in…which should’ve been obvious to me last night. DUH. Possibly just a tiny bit tired here.
Comment by Genko — January 16, 2012 @ 11:04 am
So how do you determine chapter divisions? Change of scene, of POV, of time? I don’t evidently pay much attention to these divisions, just keep plowing ahead with the story.
Comment by Annabel (Mrs Redboots) — January 16, 2012 @ 2:21 pm
Oh dear; I quite see how you need to keep your work divided into chapters to keep it into manageable chunks, but I must admit I never even notice chapter divides. I suspect I got rather good at not noticing when, as a child, I was told I could just read until the end of the chapter, but then I must snuggle down…
Comment by Kerry aka Trouble — January 16, 2012 @ 2:39 pm
Hmm…sounds like the characters are starting to find or at least get closer to the truth so maybe something like Intimations of Truth or simpler Hints of Truth.
Comment by Daniel Glover — January 16, 2012 @ 7:16 pm
As we say in these parts, “That sounds like an ‘interesting’ book.” With a deliberate emphasis on “interesting.”
With regards to the title. You’ve had eyes and ears (vision and echoes), what about touch or taste for an emphasis?
Comment by Daniel Glover — January 16, 2012 @ 7:58 pm
Whiff of Truth?
Comment by Daniel Glover — January 16, 2012 @ 8:06 pm
May want to leave the dragon’s sense of taste/tongue for the last book.
Comment by elizabeth — January 16, 2012 @ 10:52 pm
Daniel: Vision didn’t actually make it onto the book…Crisis of Vision (my title originally) was changed to Echoes of Betrayal in conference with Editors. But the “theme” of the five book titles isn’t “senses” ….if, for instance, the last three books have titles related to senses, then the first two titles wouldn’t resonate with that. (Also…except in crime noir, I don’t think any editor would be happy with “whiff” in a title, esp. not epic fantasy.)
The title needs to make sense in conjunction with the other titles, needs to “pull” from what readers will know about Echoes by the time Book IV comes out, and also lead toward Book V.
Comment by iphinome — January 16, 2012 @ 11:37 pm
Apples of Tsia, because I’m 100% sure in my assumption that book four ignored all that war and and kings stuff and is instead a biography of Koyla.
Comment by elizabeth — January 17, 2012 @ 12:19 am
Uh…no, iphinome. Not Apples of Tsaia. Though Apples of Discord maybe. (Pears of Penance? Grapefruit of Greed? Leeks of Levity? OK, OK, I will stop, please don’t hit me.)
“Return” would be a good first word except many fantasy readers minds will insert “…of the King” before they ever get to the next actual word. Lots of things return in Book IV, good, bad, and neutral-but-destabilizing. Questions are asked; some are answered; answers to questions lead to more questions.
And it’s after midnight again and I am NOT staying up till after 3 am tonight.
Comment by iphinome — January 17, 2012 @ 1:14 am
Apples of Discord sounds like it would be about Eris, I approve.
Comment by Rolv — January 17, 2012 @ 3:10 am
I liked “Winds of Change”. In fact, I used that title myself for my Licenciate thesis … But, of course, that attempt at scholariality did not make nesrly as exciting read as yours. 🙂
Comment by Richard — January 17, 2012 @ 7:05 am
(ref. #5) What I’m more interested in, is what happened to the prisoners from the battle near Darkon Edge?
Not the Pargunese – I remember they were going to be sent home (disarmed,I guess) to their and their rulers’ embarassment. Which means the Pargunese soldiers invading Lyonya would all have heard tales – which lost nothing in the telling – of the elven knights’ charge.
Not the priests’ massed peasantry – I remember they were going to be dealt with by the Marshals as Liartians and bandits.
No, what I’m asking about is the soldiers in Verrakai uniform who surrendered. Captains, especially if Verrakai sons or cousins, I’d have expected to be tried and executed under the Order of Attainder. Anyone found bearing Liartian symbols I’d also expect to have been separated out and killed. But what about the rest? If they were just taken away and thrown into Verella jails, then to the Royal Guard they are rebels who helped bandits, Liartians, Pargunese and orcs. But to Dorrin they would be military prisoners, now her people, victims of her family’s misrule, and technically not traitors because their sworn loyalty would have been to Verrakai not to Mikeli, the regency or Tsaia. So how does she react now to their fate?
(If that’s an issue for one of the later books, say no more)
(I’m thinking there should have been more surviving prisoners than the number of native militiamen she has by the end of Kings)
Comment by elizabeth — January 17, 2012 @ 9:07 am
iphinome: Apples of Discord would be more accurate about Ganlin, actually. Echoes will reveal more.
Rolv: I may toss Winds of Change toward the Editors and see what they think.
Mollie: Glad you enjoyed the spoof.
pjm: “jacks” is given as an alternate form of “jakes” in the OED. The derivation of jacks, like jakes, is from the French “jacque” It’s probably an alternate pronunciation that rarely showed up in print. “Hauk” is a word I made up (or thought I made up–it would surprise me if it doesn’t exist in some language unknown to me.) It looked and sounded right: short, harsh, something Gird’s peasant friends would have used (and said) said in non-military contexts.
Richard: I don’t think the British boys’ term was in my mind when I chose Boglund…lund for land was there, but I think (as far as I can remember) I was thinking of bog in the sense of a peat bog. As for the disposition of the prisoners left with the Royal Guard…I’m afraid that by the time Dorrin received Mikeli’s offer/command to take over, most were dead. Even without the attainder, they were considered traitors to the Crown, having attacked someone under Crown protection and the Royal Guard.
Rolv: That’s a brilliant addition to the original. Yes!
Comment by elizabeth — January 17, 2012 @ 9:34 am
Last night was the second search for “notes” in the monster. First search was for unmarked notes (like the chapter headed with a note and not the word “Chapter”) and this was the easier (usually) search for notes within square brackets [like this] which I use because I can do a search on the opening square bracket itself. Found some surprises. I had help from husband at first, but it turned out I had sent him a copy (earlier copy) of the ms. and he was finding square brackets that had already been removed. His page 75 was very different from the current page 75. Also in last night’s run-throughs, I found still more typos and other things to fix. Sigh. It’s really annoying when it’s on a page you know you’ve gone over before.
Comment by Genko — January 17, 2012 @ 10:56 am
The ongoing search for typos. The typesetting shop I worked at many years ago employed proofreaders (which not everyone did) — they looked over everything, and were good at it. So how did it happen, when we were sending a booklet out the door, that someone spotted a typo on the COVER, in 14-pt type?
AllI can say is that happens. Sigh, indeed.
Comment by Mollie Marshall — January 17, 2012 @ 11:42 am
Elizabeth:
‘Winds of Change’ sounds as though it might reflect some of the weight or charge of Book 4. You’ve said that you don’t mind using titles that other authors have used, but would this apply also to titles in (very roughly) the same genre? It is the title of one of Mercedes Lackey’s Valdemar novels, in her ‘Mage winds’ trilogy.
Hope the polishing goes well.
Comment by Daniel Glover — January 17, 2012 @ 11:58 am
I thought that things had moved around a bit regarding the “senses” but I hoped that my comments might spur discussion. I’m drawing blanks at the moment. Hope you find a good title “in there” somewhere.
Thanks Mollie. I thought I’d recognized that title. Meredes Lackey is another author taking up a lot of room on my shelves.
Comment by patrick — January 17, 2012 @ 12:30 pm
I like Winds of Change, but if you want to avoid a well-known fantasy author’s title, how about “Time of Turmoil”? Titles are tough, like cover art… intended to bring in the potential reader without being seriously misleading about content.
Comment by elizabeth — January 17, 2012 @ 1:20 pm
Mollie: A title’s prior use doesn’t matter unless it’s thought to create reader confusion, especially if the other book was published within the past 2-3 years. In this case, Lackey’s books are different enough from mine (both fantasy, yes, but different in setting and tone) that it shouldn’t be a problem. That’s something Editors look at, as well. I first ran across Winds of Change in nonfiction (more than once) and I think it’s been used elsewhere in non-fantasy fiction. It’s just such a useful title.
Patrick: I would expect Editors to turn down “Time of Turmoil” because they’d think “time” was static…somewhat dull. It sounds a bit too schoolbookish (I think) to be the kind of dynamic title they want. Nouns can seem static unless they’re exciting in themselves and time…just sits there. But we’ll see. Sure as I say “Editors won’t like it”, some Editor might.
Comment by Gretchen — January 17, 2012 @ 4:26 pm
Hm… that whole title question has words bouncing around my head. I finally gave in and here are a few collections that might, when put down in print, silence my brain so I can concentrate on my homework. 🙂
Tempest of Transformation (longish)
Storm Shift (doesn’t keep to the 3-word titles you seem to prefer)
Cyclone of Change (a bit regional, perhaps…)
I too like the simplicity and flavor of “Winds of Change” no matter how often they may have been used before. If it says what the book is about, and is evocative, and you have the option to influence the cover with, perhaps, an extremely stormy backdrop… this could work quite well, I think.
Whatever you decide, I look forward to reading it, as do my husband and daughter. Thank you!
Comment by Richard — January 17, 2012 @ 6:23 pm
Prisoners slaughtered? Atrocity! War crime!
Dorrin had the main story arc in I and the title related to that. II was Kieri’s book and the title reflected that. Why not ask whoever will be IV’s cover star to give you a title?
Comment by Genko — January 17, 2012 @ 6:59 pm
Neither Book I or II’s titles were only about those characters. There were many oaths in I and many kings in II. Haven’t yet seen Echoes, of course, so don’t know what all is involved there. Sometimes you can find a title embedded in the book itself — a phrase that leaps out in some way. Those work well. Actually, Oath of Gold was a significant song title in that book, and that fit beautifully. But what we seem to have so far in this series is some kind of summary of theme in the titles.
I do like the word “tempest” (could be plural). I was going to put “tribulation” with it – as mentioned, longish, but maybe not too …
Definitely looking forward to Echoes. I’m re-reading Surrender None (downloaded it to my Kindle from Baen) — it’s giving me a lot of interesting info, besides being a corking good yarn.
Comment by iphinome — January 17, 2012 @ 7:04 pm
Lady Moon, I was speaking of Eris the Greek goddess of strife and her association with the golden apple of discord.
Comment by iphinome — January 17, 2012 @ 8:33 pm
@Richard They either acted as brigands attacking people on the road and are hostis humani generis or they were in rebellion against their lawful king and committed treason, both cases make them criminals guilty of capital crimes, not prisoners of war.
The only mitigating factor would be if they had no choice and vassals are not slaves. I doubt any Girdish court would accept fealty as an excuse for criminal activity. Just following orders is not a defense.
Comment by Kevin Steverson — January 17, 2012 @ 9:20 pm
Ma’am,
I offer up the title “Complex Simplicity”
No?…….”A Time of Vortex”???
Well, I just read “And Another Thing” in the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy series….so thats been done…incidentaly it was “Book 6 of 3″….which is a great title in and of itself…
Comment by Corinne — January 18, 2012 @ 1:50 am
How about “The Fires of Change”?
Comment by patrick — January 18, 2012 @ 11:00 am
I can see differing views of execution of the Verrakaien military followers. Certainly the officers would be held responsible for their choices. But ordinary troopers might be held to a different standard. In many feudal systems, troopers were expected to follow the orders of their immediate leaders on pain of death. The Verrakai would use that approach even if the followers of Gird did not.
If you wanted to encourage surrender after defeat, lesser punishments of low level troopers for following orders might be common. Much depends on the customs of the lands. Feudal Japan was very different feudal Europe and there is no reason these lands need follow either model. Customs do influence outcomes though, in many subtle ways.
Whatever the customs for military prisoners, I don’t see the peasant rebels as likely to get forgiveness since they were seen as guilty of kidnapping and torturing their neighbors on Liart’s altars as well as raising weapons against the king’s standard. Once the battle was lost, the only hope for those would be for some to escape the battlefield and hope to return home undiscovered.
Whatever the results, it’s clear that Dorrin is lord of a domain in deep turmoil with a difficult recovery ahead, a shortage of troops, and likely a few rough years to go through. Of course, if all was sweetness and light, there would be no drama or much of a story to tell. Like everyone else here, I look forward to getting the next book soon and later the rest of the series.
Comment by SnowGator — March 6, 2012 @ 8:48 am
At risk of resurrecting moot topics… Title suggestion: “Debts of Destiny”