RDF/RSS Feed
Atom Feed
Today’s snippet of Echoes is from a sidestory that wasn’t working in the book itself–well, part of it is, but the specific conversations aren’t there. So this is something you’ll know when you read the book that others won’t.
And the snippet will make more sense when you have the book. Actually this is two chunks, two different conversations.
Where: in or near Harway, in Tsaia
Who: POV is Daryan Serrostin (Dorrin’s squire), his father Duke Serrostin, and Gwennothlin Marrakai
1) Duke Serrostin is trying to persuade his son to leave Dorrin’s service and come home with him.
“It’s…not natural,” his father said. “It has bark.” His look at Daryan’s hand mixed fear and loathing.
“It won’t have, when it’s grown out,” Daryan said. “The Kuakgan told me.”
“You could have needles sprouting from it.”
“No, sir, I won’t. He said so.” Daryan looked at his hand himself. True, his thumb somewhat resembled a twig, and the place where it joined into his hand had a strange bulging rim now, the skin there brown and a little wrinkled. But it was already fatter than it had been the first time he looked at it and best of all, he could move and use it already.
“And your legs. I swear I could see the green under your skin.”
“I can’t, sir,” Daryan said. It was not quite true. Just on the side of his ankle, where the skin was thinnest and the heelstring closest to the surface, he thought he could see one thin green stripe, like a thread. But maybe it was just a vein. It was a bluish green.
“Green blood!” his father said. “And our family has been Girdish for generations!”
2) Gwennothlin talks to Daryan after his father storms off to talk to Dorrin.
Gwenno Marrakai leaned on the doorpost. “Your father is furious,” she said.
“He wants me to go home. I won’t.”
Her eyebrows went up. “Dar–you’re not of age–”
“Almost. Right after the Spring Evener.”
…………………………
Something has happened, and Daryan is “contaminated” with “green blood. ” There’s a religious sense to this, as well as biological…the Kuakkgani are uncanny, mysterious folk and some Girdish feel they just aren’t…well…right.
Comment by Dave Ring — October 7, 2011 @ 6:33 pm
Did Gird have any significant interactions with Kuakkgani during his lifetime? What about Luap and other founders of Girdish tradition? Do Kuakkgani versus, say, Falkians stand any differently in Girdish law?
Comment by Alaska Fan — October 7, 2011 @ 6:58 pm
If the process of becoming a Kuaganir (sp?) is anything like what was described in Kings, and I regard elves as dubious sources, then this would be foreseeable.
The bigger question is “Why?” As in, “Why would a life-long Girdish follower from a devoutly Girdish family become a Kuakganni?
Comment by elizabeth — October 7, 2011 @ 7:14 pm
Dave: I don’t know if Gird ever met a Kuakgan. (Anyone got a reference from the Gird books?) The magelords and Kuakkgani did not get along particularly well and certainly would not have wanted to give up valuable space for a Grove. My vague sense is that the Kuakkgani in that era were more marginal, though there were a fair number in Dzordanya and Prealith.
Alaska Fan: a)Not exactly but sort of. It should become clearer later. b) Can’t answer that yet.
Comment by iphinome — October 7, 2011 @ 8:51 pm
Would you be kind enough to describe the Verrakai squire tabard?
Also, often characters remove just their sword belts, is it a second belt worn over the normal one or something else akin to a baldric?
Comment by Rolv Olsen — October 8, 2011 @ 7:52 am
Ah, the teasers …
Looking forward to Spring.
As far as I understand, both Girdsmen and Kuakgannir worship the High Lord, albeit possibly under different names. Thus, I guess, the change would be more similar to, i.e., a Pentecostal joining a Catholic monastic order than a Christian becoming Muslim (or vice versa). Still, a generation ago or so, that would have been really serious, so it’s fairly easy to imagine why the Duke is upset.
Rolv
Comment by Laura BurgandyIce — October 8, 2011 @ 4:51 pm
I was very curious about the Kuakgan when the idea of grafting on a tree limb in place of a human was mentioned. I’m intrigued to hear of someone in process!! That is an amazing idea.
Comment by elizabeth — October 8, 2011 @ 5:04 pm
Rolv: one of the interesting things about this world is that although nearly all religions have a “head god”, their conceptions of this being’s powers and nature are so different that they may distrust the other guy’s god. It makes a huge difference to elves, gnomes, and dwarves whether their “high lord” is conceived as “one who sang the world [in beautify] into being” or “one who hammered out the world on his anvil” or “one who gave Law and thus form to all things.”
So the fact that both the Girdish and the Kuakkgani believe there’s someone at the top does not bring them particularly close together.
The Kuakkgani have the closest relationship with the First Tree, and though they agree with the elves that it was part of the original Song of creation, their connection to anything more is through the taig–and of the taig, specifically trees. They work their magic through what we might call “the spirit of untamed nature,” by taking on its nature themselves–they are transformed from ordinary humans to something else. When they do speak of the High Lord–which is not often–it is to praise the creative spirit that pours out life in multiple forms, each beautiful and precious. They recognize evil as anything that seeks to destroy such life (though they understand the give and take of planting and harvest, and the grateful–not entitled–use of, for instance, trees for lumber and woodworking.
Gird himself had only the vaguest idea of the High Lord initially–his ancestry had shaped him to consider Alyanya foremost, for her relationship to blood, fertility, and generosity. The High Lord as he experienced that idea as a child, was the High Lord of the magelords–and thus an inimical power–“their” god, not his own peoples’ god. However, through his association with the old priest of Esea, and with the gnomes, he came to a different conception of the High Lord, a mix of Esea’s teaching of the Rules of Aare and the gnomes’ insistence that the Law was a law of fairness, justice, equality. When the Girdish saw “High Lord”, they are thinking primarily of a Lawgiver and Judge, and many still harbor the old belief that Alyanya is the real creator–it is Alyanya who makes seeds sprout and grow, flowers and fruit and harvest come.
They consider the Kuakkgani another order of being–human but not quite human–and are wary of their magic, as they are wary of most magic. Because the Kuakkgani are clearly not magelords–their magic was not innate from birth but acquired through the process of becoming a Kuakgan–they tolerate it, but with a little shudder now and then. Kuakkgani are relatively rare (and the inclusion of Master Oakhallow in Brewersbridge’s councils is unusual even for those areas were a Marshal and a Kuakgan interact with some frequency.) Some are convinced the Kuakkgani are part-elf…that only a part-elf could be that besotted with trees.
Comment by elizabeth — October 8, 2011 @ 5:28 pm
Iphinome: I can’t, really, not without hauling out the costume books, because I’m not a costumer, really. (Which may be why, in my mind, what they wear shifts so readily from season to season…)
Belts: The confusion here is about “normal” belts. If someone is wearing a sword, they are not (usually–there are always exceptions) wearing trousers held up by a belt. Sword belts are heavy enough so that the weight of the sword and scabbard doesn’t deform the belt and supple enough to be easily adjusted for different lengths depending on how many layers of clothing & protection someone is wearing. How heavy depends on the weight of the sword and scabbard, of course. In a formal situation, the individual may remove the sword in its scabbard from the belt which is now confining the outer layer of clothing, if that’s appropriate, and put the sword in a rack or attach the hanger to a hook (on a wall, for instance.) Otherwise it’s common and easy to just remove belt and sword together. Then the belt can be wrapped around a hook. Baldrics as a sword support, at this period, are worn only on ceremonial occasions when the outfit underneath isn’t, or shouldn’t, be belted.
Comment by Jim Elgar — October 8, 2011 @ 7:28 pm
would the fighting dagger hang from the same belt as the sword or from a different rigging.
Comment by iphinome — October 8, 2011 @ 8:54 pm
@Jim Elgar that’s what caused me to ask the question. Daggers still being available with the sword belt gone, like at dinner parties along with people sometimes pulling their sword belts over their heads.
I was hoping to get tabard info like length trim position and description of heraldic symbols (Verrakai ones, I know about the knot on the heart hand shoulder) Extra symbols for senior squire.
I’ll just find some other use for the extra light blue fabric. My costume books are close at hand.
Comment by elizabeth — October 9, 2011 @ 2:26 pm
Off topic comment (by me): it’s easy to tell some comments that are superficially conversation are really spam–they’re attached to old posts, and the comments (In this case, ending with “hope you add more posts soon” when that post was published in July…) are ridiculous.
Daggers and belts. Belts in our time are often used to hold up garments (such as slacks.) Belts in other times were used outside clothing (not with belt loops) to hold various items including purses, keys, daggers, swords, eating utensils, and other tools. People who weren’t wearing a sword would usually have lighter-weight (narrower, thinner) belts because the belt wasn’t carrying as much weight.
Dorrin prefers her squires not to wear swords except during sword practice or on patrol; they then wear a lighter belt. They may choose to attach the dagger sheath to the belt or simply thrust it through the belt and depend on friction and the dagger’s guard to hold it in place. Pages never wear swords, but do carry daggers (more like utility knives) and these are usually in a sheath with a loop for the belt. Tsaia is advanced enough that the dagger-as-offhand-weapon is not used at table (by the nobility, anyway.)
Daggers must be carried so they can be drawn quickly, and not only for a fight–there are multiple times in rural living where having a sharp knife you can grab instantly to cut yourself or an animal free can save your life.
Comment by pjm — October 10, 2011 @ 5:19 am
I am going through the Paks series again – just finished the Gird-Luap books and in the middle of Oath of Fealty. It is handy to have the earlier books electronically – they are on my phone so I have something to read when a certain other person is shopping. Thanks Elizabeth for your labours and for putting in the time on this site.
I was struck in Liar’s Oath by the reference to the Lordsforest (in the West as opposed to the Ladysforest in the East). Is there any connection?
It is fun to speculate on what may happen to various characters, and what (sometimes unlikely) links may be in the future. This is one of the benefits of reading a series – the reader has enough time and background to speculate while the author does all the hard work.
Thanks and blessings, Peter
Comment by elizabeth — October 10, 2011 @ 7:06 am
Hi, Peter,
The Lordsforest and some ancient history are about to erupt into the “present.” More than that I must not reveal at this point.
Comment by Gustovcarl — October 10, 2011 @ 9:34 am
“Lordsforest”? I missed that in Liar’s Oath. Must go back and look for it.
I love this thread. So much information!
Gus
Comment by Daniel Glover — October 10, 2011 @ 9:41 am
Oooooh. Lordsforest!?! That’s almost more spoilerish than the snippet above. Brrr. Elves from two Elvenhomes, Kaukgan, Kieri’s dead sister speaking in Lyona. Mmmm. Lots going on!
Comment by Kathy_S — October 10, 2011 @ 10:20 am
Weird: When I tried to picture the logistics of a tree-human graft, green blood didn’t even cross my mind. Too un-tree-like! There wouldn’t be chlorophyll in either xylem or phloem sap. So “green vein” made me think of a C4 plant with its sheath of green cells around the vein (though few C4 plants are trees), and green under the skin evoked the green parenchyma of some inner barks.
Comment by elizabeth — October 10, 2011 @ 10:41 am
The trees don’t literally have green blood, of course. But then neither do humans have white or black or yellow or brown blood–and yet there were times (and still are, I’ll bet) where they talked about it that way. In the thought of the people in Paksworld, animals including humans have red blood, elves and iynisin have silver blood, evil creatures have black blood, and plants have green. That it isn’t literally true doesn’t stop anyone from saying it that way.
Comment by Kathy_S — October 10, 2011 @ 11:35 am
That would certainly fit, particularly given the Duke’s “fear and loathing.” And Daryan admits he might be imagining the green stripe/vein.
Sorry. I’m taking it too literally, musing on the complexity of merging tree and human compared with, say, humans and microalgal symbionts. Probably not part of the Kuakkgani way of thinking.
Comment by elizabeth — October 10, 2011 @ 11:56 am
The only way I can imagine merging tree and human is by magic–but there are plenty of myths about human/tree mergings for a fantasy writer to play with. None of them work the way I’ve done it, which I admit is probably the result of thinking about the ability of some “lower” animals to accept photosynthetic “grafts.” A NATURE discussion “Why Are Cows Not Green?” decades back alerted me to the possibilities and I actually wrote most of a story about green cows (patented, so only the wealthier ranchers could afford them–got about 30% of their calories through photosynthesis and thus had a distinct advantage, esp. in regions with sparse forage. But a problem with melanomas, as no one had yet been able to get the photosynthetic cells to do well in dark-skinned animals. Etc.)
Anyway–this is a world with some strange magic, and the relationship of a Kuakgan to his/her personal tree is definitely magical.
Comment by Jenn — October 11, 2011 @ 6:53 am
Great outtake. I enjoy them as much as the “real” snippets.
Do the Kuakgan choose the tree they bond with? And does that then form part of their kuakgan name? Master Oakhollow being attached to an Oak.
Comment by elizabeth — October 11, 2011 @ 4:54 pm
The only part of the name I’m sure of is that “wind” is often the second half chosen by peripatetic Kuakkgani and “hallow” by those who settle and create a Grove. I suspect that the tree and the first part of the name are usually the same, but that would suggest that there are a lot of “Oak” and “Elm” and “Ash” and so on Kuakkgani, yet they don’t show up. Is the number limited by the species of trees? I have no idea at this point.
The bonding is the tree’s choice, coming late in the education of a future Kuakgan. Some who begin the training fail (as with potential knights, paladins, smiths, woodwrights, etc.) Although we see the cost to the human, and often think of trees as being able to handle the loss of a limb pretty easily, there’s a serious cost to a tree that binds itself to a human spirit. Trees know that red blood is not natural to them…red-blood-beings are short-lived, comparatively–trees see them come and go, generations of them, nesting in their limbs, scampering up and down them, living and dying on the ground beneath them. Will they be bound to human lifespan, or some compromise between their natural span and that of a human?
Comment by Richard — October 11, 2011 @ 5:27 pm
pjm (et. al.) Isn’t it “Kingsforest” rather than “Lordsforest”? I know one connection between there and Ladysforest mentioned in Oath of Gold: the elf Haleron telling Paks how he travelled from one to the other, passing near Three Firs in what we know was her grandfather’s time.
Comment by iphinome — October 11, 2011 @ 7:00 pm
It can be difficult for humans to consider the feelings of something that doesn’t have a central nervous system. That is till you’re out on a windy day. When a grumpy tree reaches out and bites you, that’s when you start to wonder. *rubs arm*
Comment by Genko — October 12, 2011 @ 7:16 pm
What I wonder about is other Kuakkgannir, like Kolya, or Seli in Brewersbridge. They aren’t really Kuakkgans, are they? So are they followewrs? Or what?
Comment by elizabeth — October 12, 2011 @ 10:03 pm
Genko: Followers of a Kuakgan, or of the belief system of Kuakkgani, are kuakgannir (notice lower-case and spelling.) Kolya is kuakgannir. She was fascinated by a Kuakgan who lived near her village when she was a child, but although invited to consider training for possibly becoming a Kuakgan, she chose to become a soldier.
You may recall that Master Oakhallow sent her rooted cuttings of apple trees.
Comment by Alessio — October 15, 2011 @ 3:41 pm
First of all cheers from Italy, I really love Paks’ world !
Second: just read a couple of months ago Gird books and I’m sure there were no Kuakkgani, but also in Paks times I think they were few: Master Oakhallow seems the only one in Tsaia or at least in the southern part of the kingdom, in fact the elves sent Paks to him from the Banas Taig and Brewersbridge was something like 5 days distant if I remember well. Or maybe he is the “chief” of Kuakkgani (if they have one): quite sure he is something like 100 years old or even more, his knowledges and powers are incredible and sometimes bigger than elves one.
In Lyonia there are none, nature in that kingdom is controlled by the elves themselves and they think that a Kuakkgan is not able to do their work.
But when the Lady of the forest met Paks after the battle against Verrakai & Pargunese Armies spoke of Kuakkganni as if they were more than one, so somewhere they must be.
Where? I think we could find some of them in Dzordanya “where forests grow on the sea” defending people against Mikki Tekki, or near the mountains.
Comment by elizabeth — October 16, 2011 @ 10:56 pm
Hi, Alessio, glad you’ve joined the discussion. The curious thing is that Kuakkgani do wander through Lyonya at times, avoiding the Ladysforest proper. And they may (?) have been in Lyonya before the elves arrived. (Something I’m just beginning to piece together.)
Comment by Alessio — October 17, 2011 @ 12:32 pm
Could Kuakkgani do so?
Elves fleed from Aarenis at least a millennium ago, however a lot of time before humans came there, and in the north they fought Orcs and other evil creatures.
The first settlers in the north (still according to the elves) came at least some century after; they colonized Honnorgat banks and were no friendly so eleves had to retreat in lyonyan forests.
The only problem now is: where are horse nomad from?
They don’t seem to came from Old Aare, and surely thy have shamans or similar figures (the one Paks met felt the power in Amberion), so if we want to find some Kuakkgani in the north before aarenian descendants arrived there I think we could find some between them.
Comment by elizabeth — October 17, 2011 @ 12:47 pm
There were humans in the north–small scattered groups of Old Humans–before the elves came (and after them, the magelords.) Horse nomads are a branch of Old Humans; yes, they have shamans.
Some parts of this universe will never be revealed–you can imagine your own “edges” but future stories, if any, may not match your imagination.
Comment by Alessio — October 17, 2011 @ 2:41 pm
Ok, now it’s all more clear!
It would be also quite complicate to know everything of this universe even if I’d like eheh…
Comment by Rolv — October 18, 2011 @ 3:31 am
Elizabeth,
I wrote a long and weelformed reply (at least in my own eyes) to your reply. Just before I’ve finished, I pressed the wrong button – and it all disappeared into cyberspace. Probably Gird – or perhaps the elves – disliked my heretic views. 🙂 still, I try again.
I get your point that the adherents of the different do not necessarily believe that the worship the same Deity, but hasn’t it benn a recurring theme, ever since Paks’ first winter in Valdaire, that they may actually worship the same after all?
And my point was that you don’t have to go far back in time to find relations between different Christian groups to be approx. as diffcult.
But the main thing is that through my impertinence, we were given a treat of an explanation!
Thanks a lot for your splendid outline of interreligious conditions in Paksworld!
Comment by elizabeth — October 18, 2011 @ 8:20 am
Rolv: I would say that relations between different Christian groups is still difficult (at least here in the US.) But all Christian groups are part of the same story or argument (and we still don’t speak the same theological language, exactly.) Some of the religions in Paks’s world–those of the Elders, for instance–developed in isolation from one another–they never had the same theological language. At the time I wrote the first Paks books, I had less knowledge than I do now–and less than I thought–of the variety of religious thought available to humans. Elves dwarves, gnomes, and dragons have fundamentally different ways of thinking even when faced with the same outward reality.
So the model is not the growth from one seed of one plant with branches–as we might consider even the monotheistic religions of which Christianity in its variety is one branch. The model is instead of different seeds planted in different beds, encountering one another at the edges as they grow and spread…although none are, or are intended to be, exact equivalences, to, say, Buddhism, Yoruba, Daoism.
Aaranha’s vision of a unity of beliefs was heretical in his own time, among his own religion of Sunlord-worshippers, and still very strange in Paks’s, when she listened to others talking about religion, from soldiers in Valdaire to the elf and dwarf in Fin Panir. We have had such people here–proclaiming unity, insisting that there is a common root (historical or within human nature) for all (or certain) religions. But whether or not they’re right–either in fact or in the practicality of trying to get people to limit their beliefs to the subset others agree with–is never stated. Those who have direct revelations (visions or voices or both or other) assume that the contact is with the god or gods they know. So do people here on this planet.