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Along with finding a major blooper in Book IV when I went back to it after page proofs….I’m now at 125,000+ words. As mentioned back when (Oath or Kings, can’t now recall which) at some point Arcolin has to consider his succession. The other dukes strongly prefer that he marry and get an heir, and that quickly; they never liked Kieri’s plan of not marrying again and letting the domain lapse. The king feels the same way–he wants things settled.
So the author has dangled multiple women in front of Arcolin in the past 24 hours–peers’ daughters and nieces, wealthy commoners’ daughters and nieces–and has had a fine time imagining what kind of girls are presented to an eligible bachelor peer. Some don’t want him. Some want his rank, and could care less about him. Some are afraid of him, or think he’s too old or too ugly (he is NOT ugly–Arcolin is a handsome man! insists his author.) Some are afraid of being stuck way up north in what they’re sure are primitive surroundings full of soldiers, far from city life and lights. So far nobody’s popped out and announced that they think he’s fine, and the situation is fascinating and fun and they’d like to take on the challenge.
Someone will, but not yet.
Dorrin gave him some really good advice, but I’m not sure he’ll take it. (Oh. Wait. Is that a plot bomb knocking on the door? Gotta answer that.)
Comment by iphinome — August 14, 2011 @ 7:20 am
Do Tsia’s equivalent of letters patent require titles and lands pass to heirs of the body? For that matter do Tsian feudal land grants require holdings be kept intact. Are Tsian nobles all sworn directly to the king alone or can a duke grant baronies in his or her own duchy? If two heirs to different lands marry would their issue hold two titles when they inherit with the domains in personal union or would one domain go to a lesser heir or new creation? Are obligations to the crown based on the size of the noble’s lands? Population? Production? Local Tax rate? Does the code of Gird screw up what might otherwise be rational ways to answer those questions?
Seems Arcolin has more to consider than just a charming companion. The less complicated, (though sometimes short!)life of a paladin or even a simple mercenary captain is looking better and better compared to court life.
Comment by tuppenny — August 14, 2011 @ 10:13 am
I’d take Arcolin ….
Comment by Daniel Glover — August 14, 2011 @ 1:31 pm
Hooray for page proofs! They gave you the break to see the “issue” sooner than later. Here’s to hoping for good test results.
Comment by Jenn — August 14, 2011 @ 1:50 pm
Iphinome just outlined why I never want to rule ANYTHING! Far to much to think about and too many knives aimed at your back. I think I will choose wandering minstrel. Do they exist in Paksworld?
Does Acrolin’s bride need to be from wealth or breeding?
Comment by Dave Ring — August 14, 2011 @ 1:58 pm
The other dukes? Wasn’t Arcolin a count at the end of Kings?
Comment by Confutus — August 14, 2011 @ 6:38 pm
Kieri didn’t really like the idea of not marrying and letting the domain lapse either, if I recall correctly; he claimed that preventing that from happening was the only reason he was ever interested in Arvys the spider-woman.
Comment by iphinome — August 14, 2011 @ 7:06 pm
Jenn has a point, does the code of Gird forbid the concept of morganatic marriage?
Comment by elizabeth — August 14, 2011 @ 7:43 pm
Tsaia’s form of feudalism is…not quite like others. Titles and lands normally pass to heirs of the body–with the approval of the crown, which is normally granted. However, the present holder can specify (to the crown and his/her family) who the heir is–it’s not always primogeniture, though that’s common. Eldest children can be found unfit. In default of heirs of the body, the present holder can suggest another (a member of the family is usual–a sibling, niece, nephew, etc.)
All peers now swear fealty directly to the king. This was not so before the Girdish War. Prior to that, the chain of oaths was much more complicated: some counts were created by the king, and some by dukes, for instance. Now, however, if a duke wished to create a barony, it would involve alienating that land from his/her domain–with the crown’s permission. The Girdish push has been to allow and encourage such alienation, to make more but less powerful peers, breaking up the great domains which (certainly right after the Girdish war) were considered the most dangerous. Commoners who hold lands from a peer (though that landholding is not exactly ownership) swear fealty to the peer. Tsaia has free towns and some peer-free areas where commoners owe fealty to the king but it’s much more informal.
If heirs to two domains marry, the domains are not combined–typically (and unlike European history) the crown requires that one domain be given up to a secondary heir. Again, the Girdish influence. They don’t want to see the regrowth of great domains. The Girdish, of course, see their changes to former systems are perfectly rational in terms of their values: egalitarian, primarily.
The Code of Gird introduced what is essentially an established church: the crown is owed one set of obligations, and the Fellowship another. Both are supposedly based on the resources available to each person: large, populous, wealthy domains owe more than small, thinly populated, poorer ones. The purposes for which obligations are used do vary. “Grange-set” (in meaning equivalent to tithe, though it’s not a tenth) is owed to the local grange and is used not only for upkeep but for emergency services (at the end of Divided Allegiance, one of the letters from a Marshal to the Marshal-General mentions relief given to a poor widow who had given Paks shelter.) The obligation to participate in grange drill (and a few work-days of maintenance on the grange itself) arises from the Girdish belief that defense belongs to the community and all should learn the skills.
This contrasts with obligations to feudal lords and (through them) to the crown. Even after the Girdish war, the defense of the realm has been perceived as primarily a feudal obligation, and feudal lords are expected to raise, train, and maintain a certain number of troops of specified types. Too many, and you’re suspected of planning for rebellion (always a lingering concern with Kieri) but too few and you’ve not fulfilled the obligation which (originally) got you the grant of land. You have the land in order to sustain the troops in order to sustain the realm. Should there be a national emergency (Pargunese invasion, for instance) each lord is expected to show up with the specified number of troops, with supplies enough for a specified campaign, and fight. In general, the troops required of feudal lords do not map well on the kind of training the Girdish granges provide: feudal lords are to provide mounted troops, archers, infantry skilled in sword tactics.
And that’s enough for this rock.
Comment by elizabeth — August 14, 2011 @ 7:44 pm
Yeah, he was getting a lot of pressure to regularize the succession as well as the disapproval of the Regency Council for other things…he thought producing an heir might take the heat off.
Comment by elizabeth — August 14, 2011 @ 7:45 pm
Yes. But remember the comments made even in Oath that he might eventually be advanced. The North Marches is a big responsibility.
Comment by elizabeth — August 14, 2011 @ 7:46 pm
Wandering minstrels? Yes. Though most musicians are attached somewhere.
Arcolin’s bride is still a mystery to me…we’ll see.
Comment by iphinome — August 14, 2011 @ 8:26 pm
I had to ask, private lives and private property are what most of us know. Feudal obligations are quite complicated in contrast and trying to drop all of that into an ‘as you know…’ might make your poor editor have an apoplectic fit.
The state religion answer seems contradictory though. Verrakai lands had no granges Kieri chose to allow a grange nearby and grant land for its support. That suggested to me that the support of Gird’s cult wasn’t obligatory except to other Girdsmen, other faiths being allowed so long as they didn’t follow evil gods.
This would leave the support of granges as what they could raise themselves from their granted lands and yeomen and not as a feudal obligation. The same would be true of grange drill, you’d need to find enough people who want to be girdsmen.
*still preparing a return volley in the humor alert thread*
Comment by elizabeth — August 15, 2011 @ 9:09 am
An established religion does not always exclude others, but the established one is privileged and gets official support. Some of Verrakai’s tax to the crown was transferred to the Fellowship of Gird precisely because there were no granges. Verrakai put up with that to avoid having granges. Where there were granges, the people owed grange-set directly to them, whether they were Girdish or not. In cities, for instance, grange-set is part of the city’s assessment.
Other faiths were certainly allowed, but supported purely by their adherents.
Although in Tsaia there’s some mingling of feudal and religious obligations and ways of thinking about them, in fact Girdish religious obligations are not feudal. When a feudal lord grants land to a grange (for instance) the grange does not owe military service to that lord in response–the foundation of feudalism. The basis of Girdish military training is to make the common people capable of defending themselves against tyranny, not in support of a feudal lord or the crown. This is clearest in non-feudal areas: the grange trains its members to fight in order to defend themselves (and the other members). Granges will not train non-members, though they may be invited to drill a few times in hopes they’ll join up.
In Fintha, where the Girdish revolution was complete, there are no feudal lords, and land was not distributed or held with any obligation to the common defense. Granges there were clearly connected to their historical roots as barns; new granges have been built on common land (or, in cities, on land donated by citizens in that part of the city.) Fintha is somewhat less tolerant of other religions than Tsaia, and all Finthans must pay grange-set. Girdish obligation to the religion includes active participation to the level of physical ability possible: attending drill nights, participating in drill, participating in other work activities (if they can’t be completed on drill nights) and in activities suitable to Girdish. It is not a religion of belief or faith, particularly, but of works. (If you’re familiar with Prothero’s books on comparative religion, the Girdish see the problem as human suffering caused by human wrongdoing, and the solution as active participation in social justice.) So the “good” Girdish will be honest in trade, hardworking, generous to those in need, and actively oppose the dishonest and violent.
In the South, where the Fellowship of Gird is a minority religion, granges are supported by their members through the grange set. There are more Falkians and Camwynians in the South than Girdish, except in the mercenary companies that recruit in Girdish lands.
Comment by Jenn — August 15, 2011 @ 10:53 am
WANTED: wandering minstrels. I am looking for one or two other singer/storytellers and at least one male singer. It is a bonus if he can play the paksworld equivalent of the zither, flute or drums. Remember we wander and are our own pack horses so avoid larger and heavier instruments. Also one juggler/acrobat. The group will be 4 at most.
Musical styles will range from Loreena McKinnett’s “the Lady of Shalott” and Gordon Lightfoot’s “the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” to the “rattling Bog”.
Summer will be spend in festivals and winters wandering from inn to inn singing for our food and shelter and a couple of nats if we are a crowd pleaser.
Auditions will take place in the Jolly Potboy at Brewersbridge Two tendays before Spring Evener. We start the wandering once the group is complete.
Elizabeth, are there areas or countries we should avoid?
Comment by Genko — August 15, 2011 @ 12:50 pm
I remember Dorrin is proposing to Mikeli that they somehow use the Girdish yoemen to help defend the crown in case of invasion by Alured/V-whatever-his-new-name-is. Seems like that might complicate further the whole religion/state thing.
Comment by Naomi — August 15, 2011 @ 1:22 pm
Tsai seems badly prepared for any invasion, The king needs to appoint someone to come up with a force that can move fast and defend it, and it looks as if Arcolin’s men are the only ones with proper training! might Ganarion take over the dukedom (in training) and Dorrin become army chief perhaps?
Comment by elizabeth — August 15, 2011 @ 1:35 pm
It complicates the military situation, as Dorrin pointed out. Because Tsaia hasn’t been involved in any wars (skirmishes but not real wars) since the one Kieri won for them some 25-30 years ago, the peers have taken to counting the yeomen in their granges as “troops” under their command. It’s less expensive than providing the extra training and equipment and armsmasters and all that…esp. if you don’t think it’ll ever be needed.
Comment by elizabeth — August 15, 2011 @ 1:54 pm
Well…you might be wiser to audition at Fiveway, which is on a busier trade route. You should probably know that gnomes aren’t interested in human minstrel shows. For that matter, most wandering minstrels are in Aarenis, not Tsaia, and of those in each place, few cross the mountains. Among the songs your people MUST know because they’ll be asked for them are Nutting in the Woods, Cedars of the Valley, Gird at Greenfields, Up a Tangled Trail, Hillcountry Lass (all favorites in Tsaia.) In Aarenis, favorites include Torre’s Lament, Where’s My Sack of Silver?, Run Fox Run, All Among the Roses Lying, and Juggler’s Holiday. In Fintha, Nutting in the Woods, Cedars of the Valley, Gird at Greenfields, Death of Gird, Lucky as Luap, My Little Calfling, Old Man’s Drunk Again.
The not really or barely respectable ones of these are Nutting in the Woods, Up a Tangled Trail, Where’s My Sack of Silver?, and My Little Calfling.
Up one level from those are Hill Country Lass and All Among the Roses Lying (love songs, but not as explicit as the above.) Old Man’s Drunk Again is a humorous patter song, as is Juggler’s Holiday.
Cedars of the Valley is a marching or work song, with a rhythm that helps people keep in step or in time for pulling. It has a call-response form.
Comment by elizabeth — August 15, 2011 @ 1:55 pm
Tsaia isn’t well prepared. That’s what Dorrin’s been trying to work on. You’ll learn more in Echoes.
Comment by Abigail Miller — August 15, 2011 @ 2:36 pm
Is Nutting in the Woods like scouting for squirrels in a Lakewalker patrol camp?
Comment by Jenn — August 15, 2011 @ 4:31 pm
Elizabeth you utterly amaze me with the amount of thought and detail you have put into your world. This is a major reason why I love reading your books and your blog.
@Abigail Miller HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Comment by Kathleen — August 15, 2011 @ 6:32 pm
Amazing amount of new (to me) background material. Thanks again for the time you take with this blog (and your others). It is much appreciated and enjoyed by this fan.
Comment by Kip Colegrove — August 15, 2011 @ 7:38 pm
In re the distinction between “right practice” (orthopraxy) as opposed to “right belief” (orthodoxy): The Girdish certainly emphasize orthopraxy, but in orthoprax traditions the mystical has a way of reasserting itself.
Pax’s call to paladinhood (paladinship?) seems to me to be an interesting example of that. The Girdish leadership at Fin Panir was concerned that she had insufficient orthoprax background, but her call was authenticated trough visions and trials. She has turned out to be the exception that tests the rule–helping “the rules” to stretch to meet challenging times.
Comment by elizabeth — August 16, 2011 @ 4:39 pm
Abigail: Um, maybe.
Jenn: Glad you enjoy the results.
Kathleen: Thanks!
Kip: Paks has definitely stretched the rules–or they were stretched for her and for the Fellowship as well. Any tradition can become hidebound and close itself off from one source of power (I almost said grace) or another.
Comment by filkferengi — August 18, 2011 @ 9:14 am
Thanks for the details about the songs! You should put them in a section on your site, for ready reference.
Thank you for the depth of worldbuilding you do and the details you’re able to share with us.
Comment by elizabeth — August 18, 2011 @ 9:48 am
Glad you enjoy it…updating the site is a ways off, but that’s a good idea.
Comment by Cindy — August 19, 2011 @ 2:41 pm
I’ve been reading and enjoying this blog for a while. Couldn’t really think of much to say before, but I had a thought reading this one. Could Arcolin marry a woman from one of the villages? She’d already be used to the north and maybe would know a bit more about Arcolin…
Comment by elizabeth — August 19, 2011 @ 4:36 pm
He could, but so far he hasn’t had any interest in doing so. I think if he was going to do that, he’d already have done it. And on their side, they’ve known as much about him as he has about them, and I don’t think they’re that much interested either. I wondered about that, some time back, and but nothing came of it.
Comment by Heather — August 22, 2011 @ 8:30 pm
Arne! I want him to marry Arne!
Comment by Richard — August 23, 2011 @ 4:13 am
Heather, one hint in the first Paks book suggest to me that Arne is sweet towards Vik.
Cindy, were you thinking of Kolya perhaps? Trying to piece together chronology from scattered clues I make it that Echoes has to be her 46th winter (that’s if Tammarion’s daughter was born one year into the marriage).
Comment by Richard — August 23, 2011 @ 4:20 am
Oops, two typos in one posting. Bother.
Comment by Richard — August 23, 2011 @ 4:32 am
and correction: 45th winter, with Fealty and Kings being less than a year between them.
Comment by elizabeth — August 23, 2011 @ 6:38 am
Amazement….I had a “feeling” for how old Kolya was, but certainly hadn’t worked it out. Good for you!
Comment by Heather — August 24, 2011 @ 10:20 pm
That would leave her more or less out of the running for the production of heirs, though. I mean, not impossible, but if Arcolin has to think about heirs…well, he’d be looking at a younger bride?
Re: Arne – true, she does seem to be Vik’s plus one. Or perhaps it’s the other way around. 🙂
Comment by Richard — August 26, 2011 @ 3:13 pm
Of course I don’t know how old Kolya actually is, just that she had to be 18 (minimum) to enlist. What shook me up a bit working it out is realising that she is coming up on seven years older than when we first met her.
I do like the custom in Paksworld (Tsaia at least) of counting age by winters instead of birthdays: so much easier keeping track of who is how much older than whom.
Comment by Richard — August 27, 2011 @ 3:47 am
P.S. Elizabeth – oh look, I’ve properly capitalised your name this time instead of conforming to your tag’s spelling, which do you prefer here? – while you are busy writing IV your readers have to fill the gap before Echoes by revisiting the earlier Paks books. Which engaged my mind and imagination more than anything since Pern.
Whatever you write is definitive (unless you correct it). I like the realism of the mostly imprecise way your characters know each other’s ages. (I also like not knowing official dates – we don’t need them, and having them would spoil the ambience.) But in one run of chapters a memory from Kolya and a calculation from Kieri, if both spot on, confirm perfectly that Tammarrion’s daughter was indeed born the same year as Paks, which is significant.
Knowing that, Kolya gave her age away when you had her reminisce about Tammarrion getting married.
Comment by Darren F — February 17, 2019 @ 7:57 am
Has anyone ever put the above mentioned songs to music? Are there chord or lead sheets available?