RDF/RSS Feed
Atom Feed
Page proofs are done and should be shipped off today if I make it to the city. Otherwise, another day (not due yet, so no screaming rush.)
As to Book IV, I had an interesting chat with a writer-friend last night, complaining that something I wrote way back at the beginning of this, and had been trying to find the right place for, really needs to go in Book IV–but I’m not sure where or how. He had an idea, which I’m thinking about. I like what I’ve written as I’ve written it, and it would have to be changed (in tone, in detail) to do what he’s suggested (essentially, moving from a mysterious but suggestive scene to a dream sequence.)
My idea is that the scene should be fully concrete to the reader; they’re there, they’re seeing the detail, feeling the rock and sand and sun. That’s hard to do in a dream without over-pressuring it (I think…) I could use the apparent dream in Vatta’s War because I’d used the actual scene before, and the “dream” was actually the stored memory of the event in Ky’s father’s implant–it was “playing” like a movie directly into her brain. Dreams are peculiar and nearly always (to seem real as dreams) have some logic leaps and gaps and weirdness. This needs to be (or I think it needs to be) very undreamlike, though also very strange to the rest of the group of books so far. The people in the scene are real and are (to themselves anyway) acting perfectly logically.
And yet dreams are in this book anyway. Hm.
Such dilemmas are common in writing–the reader needs to know something, and there are always multiple ways of getting that information to the reader. (“As you know, Bob, the gritzlemanger intersects the formdongle at 46.3 degrees precisely…” being one of the least approved in today’s writing.) One character can tell another. One character can think about it….can read it in a book or see it on a news screen or overhear it in a tavern or receive it mentally as a bright idea, a telepathic communication from an alien, or…a dream. Or the writer can change viewpoints and put the reader right down in front of the needed information, a firm instruction to look and learn because you’re going to need this.
Different readers prefer (or loathe) the different methods. Among the things the internet has done for writers is give them access to lots and lots and lots of readers talking about what they like and don’t like in lots and lots and lots of books. Too much information, in a way, because it’s so contradictory. Reader A loathes Writer R’s books because of the human-animal connection (could be cats, dogs, horses) and Reader B loves the same books for the same reason. Reader C actually enjoys infodump and prefers writers who go into long explanations…Reader D cannot stand even the slightest hint of infodump and despises the writers favored by Reader C.
So the writer trying to figure out the best way to connect his/her readers with a given body of knowledge that’s going to be even more useful a little later on, where the writer doesn’t want to slow things down at all….has choices, but also the need to think carefully. For these readers, of this book, which method will work best? Should you sacrifice the immediacy and concreteness of a head-on scene for the intimacy and obvious plot-connection of a dream? And if so, whose dream should it be?
In the meantime, there are words to be written on the main line, and sometimes just writing more main-line words clarifies what should be done with that odd, evocative, and strange little scene that connects (boy, does it connect!!) down the line.
Comment by iphinome — August 12, 2011 @ 8:54 am
*****Humor alert*****
As you know, dumping exposition on your audience is considered lazy at best. Except, that is, when you do it in song. If your characters suddenly break out in a musical number pouring out all the background information, feelings, and sometimes useful time/location changes, the audience forgives.
Paksenarrion: Hack up the Tangler replacing Spiderman: Turn Off the Dark soon at a theater near you.
Iphinome strolled away, the sound of her singing the ‘Seven Deadly Virtues’ lingering long after she left sight of the encampment.
Comment by ajlr — August 12, 2011 @ 9:47 am
Trying to stay true to The Story in the face of such potentially conflicting reader likes and dislikes must, I suppose, feel like a bit of a minefield on occasion? Does long experience of successfully-published writing help one to judge these things – or at least to take a more philosophical view of the various tensions?
Comment by elizabeth — August 12, 2011 @ 10:22 am
I admit to some jumpiness when I first got on some groups (back in the Olden Days) and realized just how impossible it was to please them all. Now I’m fairly calm about it (except when someone blows up at me about a hot button I never knew existed) and trust that there will be enough readers to keep the horses, cat, and family fed. I do ponder, at times, the best way to handle something for my readership. Sometimes it all flows naturally and sometimes…as today…I’m pushing this scene around and wondering what’s best.
Comment by elizabeth — August 12, 2011 @ 10:29 am
Humor alert returned (and you’d better recognize the tune from the first line…):
“Somewhere…over the ocean…mystery lies…
Somewhere, big stuff is happening
Just not before your eyes…
Take this… hint that I give you…and just wait
Somewhere, it all comes together
And when it does, it’s great…
Don’t worry ’bout the details now
it’s not a squirrel or a cow
that I…sing…here…
The colored sand, the wind that blows
are things that only writer knows
but will come clear….oh….
Somewhere, over the ocean, mystery dreams
When, when, when will it waken?
Show us what only seems?”
Comment by Daniel Glover — August 12, 2011 @ 11:10 am
Glad you are getting the humor here. Your regular blog post about real life events in the U.K. is plenty deep.
My two pennies on the dream sequence would be not. Unless, you can think of a way to tie it in to some of the other events the gods are obviously intervening with in Paks world. Need a good way to make the “sending” seem appropriate in my opinion.
Comment by Jenn — August 12, 2011 @ 1:40 pm
I agree with Daniel Glover.
There were never dream sequences before. At most you had night visions (the gods coming to Paks and Tamar whispering to Kieri)and they were mystic but very concrete. But do what you think fits you are the author.
I finally read a book where I recognized “infodump” (I had never thought about it until I started reading you blog). How annoying. It felt like a commerical. Two pages where a character goes into a long strung out monologue on why I need to know this so that everything makes sense. “And now back to our regularly scheduled story…” (eye roll) I just stopped, skimmed to the end and memorized the page number in case I needed to go back to it.
On another note I finally found a name for my aloof maroon dragon: Deficyl. A poor phonetical spelling of the french “difficile” (difficult). Oddly the dragon is quite content with that name. (more eye rolling)
I think I may have used up my quota of parenthesis.
Comment by Daniel Glover — August 12, 2011 @ 1:57 pm
There were actually quite a few in Liar and a couple in Gird. Elizabeth, maybe it’s your experience around LO that’s bothering you about that route. I’m sure you’ll do fine with whichever route the Plot Daemon leads you to choose.
Comment by Jenn — August 13, 2011 @ 7:18 am
I guess I will have to hunt down a copy of Gird’s Legacy. I only read it once.
Comment by Abigail Miller — August 13, 2011 @ 9:09 am
THANK YOU for that song. Nice fat hint! I can see your difficulties in plopping such a scene in.
Here n of Dallas IT’S DRIZZLING! AND OVERCAST! AND UNDER 75°! Back to the oven next week, though. Can I get a ticket to Lady’sforest, please?
Comment by elizabeth — August 13, 2011 @ 11:41 am
Jenn, you don’t have to if you don’t want to…of course I wish everyone would want to read every one of my books over and over, but realistically…it’s not going to happen. So if the Gird book and the Luap book didn’t drag you back into them…don’t worry about it. (It would help to recall that a bunch of magelords are bespelled in that underground stronghold in the far west….just sayin’.)
Comment by elizabeth — August 13, 2011 @ 11:42 am
If I could find one of those magical patterns to whisk me there, I would be there SO FAST. But could I write once I was there? Hmmm.
Comment by elizabeth — August 13, 2011 @ 11:54 am
Note: a comment I briefly approved and then unapproved after checking out the web address appears to be a commercial communication. Those are not appropriate here; if the author wishes participate here in a non-commercial way, that’s fine, but the author’s next comment will be moderated as well.
Comment by Jonathan Schor — August 13, 2011 @ 3:37 pm
Since you are doing the work, write as you see fit. I have no doubt that it will be written well.
Comment by iphinome — August 15, 2011 @ 4:59 am
**Humor alert**
With apologies to Gilbert and Sullivan.
Okay if we’re filking here it goes.
(Palidin) I am the very model of a stalwart Girdish Palidin,
When I fight a battle, the contemptable will never win!
I know the Code of Gird, his war against the mage lord sin,
And at last he fought –a monster, says Luap’s literary spin.
(I can even tell you, he kept ale in his water skin)
I understand languages, both of dwarvish and of Sinyin
About Fin-Panir I’ve stories that will amuse,
Like yeomen skipping drill to try and get a little extra snooze.
(chorus) Like yeomen skipping drill to try and get a little extra snooze.
Like yeomen skipping drill to try and get a little extra snooze.
Like yeomen skipping drill to try and get a little extra snooze.
(Palidin) I’m very good at battling Liart’s evil callousness;
I’ve seen the horrorific deeds of his preists, blasphemous!
For help who shatters rabble contmeptable, with a grin,
Ask for the aid of a stalwart Girdish Palidin.
(chorus) For help who shatters rabble contmeptable, with a grin,
Ask for the aid of a stalwart Girdish Paladin.
Comment by elizabeth — August 15, 2011 @ 9:09 am
Snork!!
Comment by Genko — August 15, 2011 @ 12:41 pm
No real opinion on dream sequence.
However, I just was on a silent retreat and found myself doing something I call “running scenarios” (not exactly an approved activity during zazen, but still, something that conmes up now and again). You could say this was like a daydream, but it felt more real and vivid than that. It had the quality of a dream, but since I was conscious, it held together better. I could go back and forth in it (i.e., start over from point A to put in something that seemed to needed to be there).
In both cases I was the heroine (of course! what do you think I read Paksennarion for?), and when the scenario had run its course I was able to step back and see something true in it, some reason why I had gone there with the mind. That IS an approved activity in zazen.
It may be faintly similar to a visitation by the gods. Or it may just be considered a daydream. Or maybe it’s my frustrated writer coming out. Whatever. I think there are many things the human mind is capable of, and some modification of a typical dream may be called for here.
Just a thought.
Comment by elizabeth — August 15, 2011 @ 1:54 pm
Very interesting…I like your description. Thinking about it.
Comment by Richard — August 15, 2011 @ 7:26 pm
iphinome, as a lifelong G&S fan myself (thanks to my father) I applaud your effort. I couldn’t begin to attempt such a thing myself. That doesn’t stop me, as a critic, from saying it needs some more work, even on the basic number of syllables in some lines; others don’t quite seem to flow well enough.
The lines 7-and-8 rhyme should if anything be even cornier. For those who don’t know the original song, in actual performance the singer pauses at the end of line 7, repeating the last 3 syllables trice as if trying to think of a rhyme for the next line. Then the third time the chorus repeat line 8 back they repeat (faster) the penultimate pair of syllables (i.e. “a little extra-extra snooze”).
There is of course an underlying joke to the original song, with the entire last verse (of three) as its punchline… a man who is an expert at everything except his actual job!
Comment by iphinome — August 15, 2011 @ 7:48 pm
@richard I apologize for being sloppy. I’ll try to refine the song and re-post in however long it takes me to finish.
Not that it mitigates the flaws but I originally planed a different song, the simple joys of pal’dinhood, (the simple joys of maidenhood) but kept getting the lusty month of may stuck in my head. The Modern Major General song, being an earworm, was just easier to work with.
I’m afraid I couldn’t in good conscience have a Girdish Paladin who’s military knowledge has only been brought down to the beginning of the century, I don’t think Gird would approve.
For she is a Girdish paladin,
and it is it is a glorious thing to be a Girdish paladin.
it is! Hurrah for the Girdish paladin, hurrah for the Gird-ish Paladin.
(that’s the same as the Lyonyan King song.)
The third option was Phantom of the Opera but that would have meant delving into parts of Divided Allegiance that made me cry in the past. (The eeeeeevil of the Iynisin is here… insiiiide my mind)
Comment by iphinome — August 19, 2011 @ 6:57 am
Iphinome:
A warning must be given, for this posting, it is humorous
I hope you won’t consider my revising it superfluous.
For when at first I did try out some parody like witticisms,
Resulting efforts were then met by literary criticisms.
Why the need to speak in verse? A subject for ontology.
For every screw up in the text, have my sincere apology.
Still filled with flaws admit I do, brought forth from my own laziness,
Perhaps though now it’s good enough to cause some laughing craziness.
Chorus:
Perhaps though now its good enough to cause some laughing craziness.
Perhaps though now its good enough to cause some laughing craziness.
Perhaps though now you will not note she has mental unstable-able-ness.
Iphinome:
[aside] Hey!
Lady Moon did writing of a story quite exceptional,
To make a filk about it is a ‘taking quite defensible.
So if you need some singing fun with meter utilitarian,
Relax and sing the ballad of a stalwart Girdish paladin.
Chorus:
So if you need some singing fun with meter utilitarian,
Relax and sing the ballad of a silly Girdish paladin.
—
Paladin:
I am the very model of a stalwart Girdish palidin,
My extra spoken languages, are Dwarvish and of Sinyin.
The Magelords treated peasants in a manner most draconian,
So Gird he led the yeoman forth, his armies kicked them in the shin.
Girdish teachings’ narrative, has focus on that mage lord sin,
A monster’s what he faced at end, -says Luap’s literary spin.
From Fin Panir, my training, I learned stories that will quite amuse, (quite amuuuuuuuse… Got it.)
Like yeomen skipping drill and prayer to drink a little secret booze.
Chorus:
Like yeomen skipping drill and prayer to drink a little secret booze.
Like yeomen skipping drill and prayer to drink a little secret booze.
Like yeomen skipping drill and prayer to drink a little not so very secret booze. [Paladin glances back at chorus]
Paladin:
On the topic of religion, we can be a tad fanatical.
But when you need Girdish help, it won’t be problematical.
So when your little village is besieged by a barbarian
Fear not my friends, come to your aid, a stalwart Girdish Paladin!
Chorus:
So when your little village is besieged by a barbarian
We’re afraid you have to deal with this pompous Girdish Paladin. [paladin glares at chorus]
Paladin:
For I cure the common people afflicted by the Pargun pox;
I’m told of Dorrin’s Sunlord treasure kept inside a magiced box,
Of Gird I can tell you rumor, he kept ale in a water skin—
(Despite repeated naggings from his influential next of kin)
We heroes of the common folk, come from any class or fam’ly form,
There was once a paladin in Kieri Phelan’s uniform.
For girdsmen equal all do start, we follow meritocracy, (meritocracy… cra… cy…)
One day if we’re successful we’ll be rid of aristocracy.
Chorus:
One day if they’re successful you’ll be rid of aristocracy.
One day if they’re successful you’ll be rid of aristocracy.
One day if they’re successful you’ll be rid of aristocra-ocra-cy.
Paladin:
I’m very good at battling with Liart’s evil callousness;
I’ve seen abominations by his followers -most blasphemous!
So if you need protection when beset by Liartarins,
Go right out and find yourself a stalwart Girdish paladin.
Chorus:
So if you need protection when beset by Liartarins,
Go right out and find yourself a pompous Girdish paladin.
Paladin:
I travel helping people from Lyonya to Kolobia,
I even crossed the mountains, though I suffer acrophobia.
Though fighters for the gods we be, their hero forces physical,
The major help from them we get is riding horses mystical.
For when the evil creatures all are facing off against this sword,
Those Kuaknom and orcish find that dying is their just reward.
When forth I bring my magic light the terrifying darkness quench, (darkness quench, oh my word, that’s a hard one….)
A paladin to have at night, beats any common tavern wench!
Chorus:
A paladin to have at night, beats any common tavern wench!
A paladin to have at night, beats any common tavern wench!
A paladin to have at night, beats the tavern’s slutty little-ittle whore! [Paladin looks scandalized]
Paladin:
My chance to be a paladin, offered up when I was knighted,
A call to help the innocent? This hero would be delighted!
So come along and fight me for you evil men will never win, [paladin raises sword]
You’re going into battle ‘gainst a stalwart Girdish paladin!
Chorus:
So come along and fight now for you evil men will never win,
You’re going into battle ‘gainst a stalwart Girdish paladin!
Brigand King:
Encore! Can you do that one more time?
Paladin:
Certainly.
Brigand King:
And can you do it really fast?
Paladin:
Watch this.
Paladin:
I travel helping people from Lyonya to Kolobia,
I even crossed the mountains, though I suffer acrophobia.
Though fighters for the gods we be, their hero forces physical,
The major help from them we get is riding horses mystical.
For when the evil creatures all are facing off against this sword,
Those Kuaknom and orcish find that dying is their just reward.
When forth I bring my magic light the terrifying darkness quench,
A paladin to have at night, beats any common tavern wench!
Chorus:
A paladin to have at night, beats any common tavern wench!
A paladin to have at night, beats any common tavern wench!
A paladin to have at night, beats the tavern’s slutty little-ittle wench!
Paladin:
My chance to be a paladin, offered up when I was knighted,
A call to help the innocent? This hero would be delighted!
So come along and fight me for you evil men will never win,
You’re going into battle ‘gainst a stalwart Girdish paladin!
Chorus:
So come along and fight now for you evil men will never win,
You’re going into battle ‘gainst a puffed-up Girdish paladin!
—
Iphinone:
So there you see a song about the world of Paksenarrion,
A girl who’s eating habits can be classed as mushroom’tarian.
The stuff about the fall of Aare soon the author may unveil,
But what I really need to know is more of Birgis Sirkin’s tale!
Does she think her work place of the kind that she finds fabulous?
Or will she ever find herself in happy loving sapphic bliss?
No matter what the story is, like we the plot and metaphor, (metaphor, hmmmm)
Bring us entertaining action parts, like Sassinak and Vatta’s War.
Chorus:
Bring us entertaining action parts, like Sassinak and Vatta’s War.
Bring us entertaining action parts, like Sassinak and Vatta’s War.
Bring us entertaining action parts, like (maybe not) Sassinak more Vatta-atta’s War.
Iphinome [turns to the chorus]:
Would you guys be nice for once? [turns back]
So “as you know” we’re done here with the needless exposition,
Dumping plotless info on a page does the pacing imposition.
If I should end the singing now, chance there is to be laconic
Before this habit, singing verse, becomes something that is chronic.
Chorus:
If she should end the singing now, chance there is to be laconic
Before we have to sing more verse of style that is moronic!
Iphinome:
This is the last time I hire a Greek chorus.
Comment by elizabeth — August 19, 2011 @ 7:33 am
Um…wow. And giggles.
I second the recommendation not to hire a Greek chorus.
Comment by iphinome — August 19, 2011 @ 8:06 pm
I asked for a normal chorus but this is what the agency sent over. They wouldn’t leave and we were already going over budget, the paladin was chewing every bit of scenery so I just shoved everyone out on stage and hoped for the best.
Comment by Richard — August 22, 2011 @ 9:57 am
Wow from me too, Iphinome. Thank you.
Comment by iphinome — August 22, 2011 @ 7:34 pm
@Richard *curtsies*
Comment by Richard — August 23, 2011 @ 2:28 am
From the chorus a yeoman steps forward to announce, “She is a Girdish man
For she herself has said it
And its greatly to her credit
That she is a Girdswoman
That, she is a Girdswoman
For she might have sworn as paladin
By Falk or Tir or Camwyn
Or perhaps have gone kuakkgann
Or, perhaps have gone kuakkgann
But in spite of all temptation
To belong to other patron
She remains a Girdswoman
She remains a Gir-ir-ir-irdswoman
(a simple little song, but my absolute favourite from the G&S canon; it will be the first of my Desert Island Disks)
Comment by elizabeth — August 23, 2011 @ 6:38 am
Another Wow!
Comment by iphinome — August 23, 2011 @ 6:52 am
@Richard Bravo bravo!
When it comes to Gilbert and Sullivan, my favorite is the one about duty.
I won’t try to top you, but another snippet from Pinafore.
Chorus: What never?
Gird: Well, hardly ever.
Chorus: Hardly ever allows magery.
Then give three cheers, and one with flair,
For the love-ed marshal of Fin Panir!
Then give three cheers, and one with flair,
For the love-ed marshal of Fin Panir!