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Since I already let this kitten roll out of the bag somewhere else, it’s loose here as well. It’s spoiler-ish, but not a true spoiler, and it’s insight into how my mind functions on “deep logic” issues. It’s slightly (but only slightly and not in essence) different from the version on the other venue. However, if you fear even the faintest tinge of spoilerishness, maybe better skip this one.
I’m dealing with a chapter that stopped me in my tracks and made me back up and think harder. I’ve been thinking harder for weeks about this chapter (while thinking in the forebrain about other things.)
And lo…there are currents in gnomish culture I’d never really thought about.
A friend of mine who’s traveled a lot has written about exiles and the cultural peculiarities that develop when people aggregate in their familiar communities but in new places, surrounded by other cultures. Ex-pats, exiles, whatever the cause, from actual exile to seriously at odds with the government where they used to be to “it’s cheaper to raise the kids here than there,” some shrug and join into their new homes and some…don’t.
And when/if visited by those from the old country, their reactions can be unexpected. Some are eager to hear all the news (and their motivations for this eagerness can vary from “Tell me how old Uncle George is doing” to “Tell me if the government has changed.”) Some are uncertain whether the visitor has come to chastise them for staying away, or ask them how they themselves can get political asylum. Those who are fitting in may be eager to encourage their visitors to join them, or want to brag on their success.
Gnomes have had a very stable, mostly secretive, society for a very long time…independent princedoms that communicate with one another (mostly about the Law, or warning of threats from outside) but do not have much close interaction. Now they have an anomaly. Arcolin, a human (and as a human, clearly outside the Law) saved some gnomes who’d been made kteknik–cast out of Law. Being human, he doesn’t realize all the implications of saving them and then saying “Yeah, sure, you can have those hills over there; we don’t use them anyway.” (Not word for word, but in essence.) He worries about what his human ruler will think, but not about what other gnomes will think–because he doesn’t realize the…um…stiffness…of the larger gnome culture yet. He is by nature a warm-hearted and friendly person (though well able to maintain the dignity a commander needs) and like most humans thinks the gnomes are “cold.” He was embarrassed when they kissed his boots (and is again every time it happens.)
When other gnomes find out about this…shock is a mild word for what they feel. Some of this comes out in Limits of Power, but what I’m dealing with is an aftershock of the shock, in Book V. There would inevitably be tension between the rescued gnomes and other gnomes still “properly” living in established princedoms, gnomes who had never been outside the Law. I had vaguely thought of joyful reunion with one’s own kind, but…not necessarily.
Today’s scene is tricky to write, but very different from an earlier draft, the one that the book itself made me toss. I needed to spend time thinking about the roots of gnomish culture–what they believe they were created for, how this would shape their reaction to having a human save gnomish lives (rather than gnomes saving gnomes, quietly and without fuss.)
See? Not so spoilerish after all.
Comment by Genko — May 23, 2012 @ 11:17 am
No, very disappointing 🙂 The gnomes were clearly not expecting the offer of some hills to live in, and were taken aback a bit at Arcolin’s offer. One feels that they would have almost preferred not to take it. But they were in an extreme situation, and bent enough to settle.
Hadn’t really thought about what OTHER gnomes would think of the whole thing. Does indeed present complications.
Comment by elizabeth — May 23, 2012 @ 11:54 am
Taking it means they’re obligated: there are no “gifts” in gnomish social theory, only fair exchanges. Being obligated is painful (it is to many people, as well) and requires the gnomes (no matter what Arcolin says) to level up the playing field again. And there’s more…but that’s in Limits of Power.
Entwining gnomes and their notions into the rest of the story just sort of happened–it wasn’t planned, for instance, to have those gnomes stop Selfer and Andressat in Kings, something that will have fallout–has already had fallout, but will have more. But once I realized Pargun was going to use scathefire, then both dragons and gnomes had to come onstage.
Comment by greycats — May 23, 2012 @ 12:54 pm
Ummm…Well, when I read through the foot-kissing and land-giving episodes my thought was that Arcolin had become a gnomish prince. Not formally, of course, but in practice.
Interesting. Arcolin’s gnomes still have their body of law intact, but their administration of it and eventually their interpretation of it could change, I would expect.
Comment by elizabeth — May 23, 2012 @ 1:09 pm
Arcolin has never seen a gnome prince, of course and has no idea what any of the behaviors really mean. He will find out, with more experience.
His interpretation was “submission or gratitude or both” (correct but incomplete.)
Comment by Ginny W. — May 23, 2012 @ 1:21 pm
We have not seen much about the different gnome kingdoms (or principalities) are related to each other. Since the gnomes appear to have a very rigid system of exchange and value, I would think that this would govern the relations between communities. It may explain how some families came to dominate or rule other families if that is the case. This would mean that distant groups (how distant) might have trouble working out a fair exchange in case of trouble. It seems to me that you are engaging a problem of how gnomish law functions at its boundaries.
There might be a precedent for that in our own society in the ways that Orthodox Jewish communites engage those at their boundaries. Chaim Potok wrote a number of good novels (not fantasy or science fiction) which might help to get your thoughts in order. As if you had time to read.
On the other hand, possibly the gods want to bring the gnomes into more contact with humans and elves. After all, gnomes taught Gird about the law, and that seems to have had a positive influence in the North. It is a time of great change, after all.
Comment by Moira — May 23, 2012 @ 1:36 pm
More gnomes – yay!
More headaches for Arcolin, I suspect, but hopefully they’re worthwhile ones in the end.
Comment by Jenn — May 23, 2012 @ 1:58 pm
One would think that clearing the hill of orcs would be considered a good exchange.
Hmm will the other princedoms have a problem only with the “lawless” gnomes or will they have a problem with Arcolin and the thereby the whole Fox company? The one princedom still owes Paks so maybe she can pull a few strings (or roll a few rocks).
Ginny W., “The Chosen” was one of the few required reading books I ever read twice in High School. I wonder if you could also compare the gnomes to the differences between the Menonites, Hutterites, and Amish or the various differences with each group.
Comment by Daniel Glover — May 23, 2012 @ 2:39 pm
What I’d thought about the gnomes interacting with gnomes about this wasn’t even close–and I’m glad you have Elizabeth. What you’ve been able to say makes sense. Makes the waiting for the last two all the more enjoyable, more things to think about.
Comment by Ginny W. — May 23, 2012 @ 4:58 pm
Jenn: Good questions. Yes the Mennonites and Hutterites and Amish fit what I had in mind. Your comment about clearing the orcs highlights that we do not really understand their system of exchange, that is, if there must be an equal exchange, what is the value of taking in the group vs. clearing the orcs that are a danger to the larger community?
Comment by SnowGator — May 23, 2012 @ 5:59 pm
I had the same reaction as Jenn — clearing the orcs and effectively holding that flank should count for something toward fair exchange
Comment by Genko — May 23, 2012 @ 6:25 pm
Yes, we would think so, as humans, but remember that Arvid tried to say that Dattur no longer owed him because he saved his life, and Dattur didn’t feel it was enough of an exchange. They obviously have different ideas of what constitutes fair value than humans do. Difficult, of course, but intriguing, as all cross-cultural exchanges tend to be.
Comment by Dave Ring — May 23, 2012 @ 7:38 pm
I’ve wondered about Arcolin’s gnome clients so easily taking out a whole colony of orcs. Could they just as easily destroy an underground stronghold of iynisin? Achrya does not extend any protection to orcs that she uses as troops?
Gird and other humans are, I assume, better for the Law Gird learned from them. Maybe the gods see some value in a group of gnomes learning from a situation in which fair exchange may not be possible.
Comment by elizabeth — May 23, 2012 @ 8:00 pm
Remember that orc-hunting had been going on since Kieri’s time…the orc colony was much diminished, though the humans didn’t know it. As for Achrya, she’s already lost her powers by this time–Dragon reduced her. So the orcs that are left have no protector.
Comment by june Mattes — May 23, 2012 @ 9:12 pm
AH!but we do have a crown with no home, could there be some confusion as to the real or wanted owner coming up? Don’t answer but it does make a person wonder. A petal to the left, he is a prince, a petal
Comment by Moira — May 24, 2012 @ 1:27 am
AGH!! My eyes, my eyes! *chants* I did not read that, I did not read that, I did not read that…
But, having read that, I’m looking forward to the Webspinner get her comeuppance. Hah!
Comment by Sharidann — May 24, 2012 @ 1:44 am
interesting read, thanks.
I have been wondering for some time if Dattur isn’t a lost gnomish prince snared in a web of intrigues….
Comment by Richard — May 24, 2012 @ 2:21 am
Sharidann, now that is spoilerish (if true).
Comment by Richard — May 24, 2012 @ 3:36 am
“The orcs that are left have no protector”. There’s still the iynisin; aren’t orcs in a sense their creatures, just as Achrya (you’ve revealed) was not so much the iynisin’s patron more their protege?
Though with Dragon’s eggs found on the one hand (the gnomes’ resistance having been overcome), and Kieri himself gone away to Lyonya on the other, neither Achrya nor iynisin can have the same interest in those particular orcs any more.
If anyone wonders how orcs that had been hunted for years had the numbers to attack Duke’s East the way they did (in Oath of Gold), my own guess is that the year Kieri took everyone away to Siniava’s War, Achrya had taken advantage to bring in warbands from other tribes as reinforcements. Most of them must have been killed in the battle.
By the way, what did happen to the ring in pledge of debt that the gnome trader gave Paks? (If that isn’t a spoiler.) Was it taken from her in Kolobia (without her consent)? or earlier in Fin Panir (with her consent) when she became a paladin candidate? in the latter case is it still there in some storeroom, or was it returned to her (when she quit) to end up in Master Oakhallow’s offering bowl? (Those are all the possibilities I can think of)
Comment by Nigel — May 24, 2012 @ 4:13 am
Interesting dilemma, but there is always the possibility that the Dragon will intervene and have to give a ruling – and he did accept Arcolin could give the land to the gnomes I recall – so maybe he will get more involved?
Comment by Mollie Marshall — May 24, 2012 @ 4:33 am
Arcolin’s gnomes sent for help but none came. Dragon did not seem to know about this, but surely it should have counted as an extenuating circumstance in his judgement of their failure to protect the eggs.
Assuming their messenger actually got through, whichever princedom was asked for help did not provide any. Would this refusal itself create a debt between the two princedoms?
Comment by Ginny W. — May 24, 2012 @ 10:22 am
Maybe this discussion should be deflected into spoiler space, since it leads us (who are eagerly awaiting the next book) to speculate on the tantalizingly dangling threads that are hanging from the last one(s).
Comment by Kerry aka Trouble — May 24, 2012 @ 10:59 am
Assuming their messenger actually got through
Assuming a fact not in evidence. A refusal would probably generate debt, but what if the messenger never made it? How can they prove they even tried? And would that proof be enough to get Dragon to reconsider his judgement?
Comment by Jenn — May 24, 2012 @ 11:17 am
Richard,
Good question on the ring. Do the gnomes recognize the right of the ring only in the hands of Paks? Would they redeem the exchange to whoever bore the ring? The Fellowship, Master Oakhollow, or the “dark ones”.
How does a gnome prince become a prince. It was mentioned he had to know the Law. Is he tested? Is he born into it and trained or can one be challenged for the position?
Comment by elizabeth — May 24, 2012 @ 12:08 pm
Ginny & others: Yes, we should divert this discussion into a Spoiler Space, but the one we have is pretty full. I’ll open a new one, called “Speculation Space” in a couple of minutes.
Comment by elizabeth — May 24, 2012 @ 12:29 pm
And now it exists. For those who read comments first before the new post…this is your sandbox for speculating; I won’t be reading there unless someone reports problem behavior in that thread.
Comment by Moira — May 24, 2012 @ 2:12 pm
Thank you, Elizabeth. We can get back to drinking and carousing in the great hall – oh wait, that was the other thread. Ah well. Maybe Dragon, after a few cups of ale, can give a truly apocalyptic demonstration of fire breathing.
Comment by elizabeth — May 24, 2012 @ 2:20 pm
Gleep…I just realized that when I choose Comments, over in Site Admin, I will see the comments in the Speculation thread as well. Will have to learn to look at the thread title off to the side and skip those. (If I answer comments in Admin, I get to use formatting stuff, almost but not quite as if they were posts.)
I would not encourage Dragon on the fire-breathing thing…and it doesn’t take ale. (And somehow I doubt Dragon would consent to crisp up the top of a creme brulee for us. For something like that, you’d want Anne McCaffrey’s fire lizards–small enough to be in the kitchen. I wonder if they’d be quieter than a blowtorch.)
Need to run quickly over to email and let a friend know a package is now in the mail, on its way. And also RSVP to a wedding invitation.
Comment by Elizabeth D. — May 24, 2012 @ 8:48 pm
No speculation here, just observation. I had thought that the gnomes would pose some problems down the road, exactly as described. While everybody else is battling forces that are more than their match, the gnomes may be battling protocols that are more than their match. It’s sort of Star Wars versus steampunk; one is a shooting war, the other is a war of the right end to open an egg; nothing to do with their size.
Comment by elizabeth — May 24, 2012 @ 10:14 pm
I love the way you put that. “Right end to open an egg.” Yes.
Comment by Jenn — May 25, 2012 @ 10:31 am
Thanks for the speculation space. Though I was hoping the comments from the last spoiler space to break 300. 🙂
Comment by Genko — May 25, 2012 @ 11:00 am
Paks likely lost the gnomish ring in Kolobia, along with her other treasures. But the gnomes remember the debt, as they mentioned to Burek and company. That is a better surety than an object, gnomes being who they are. The ring was presumably a token to assure humans with more limited memories and a different sense of honor.
Comment by Richard — May 26, 2012 @ 2:39 am
But did Paks have the ring in Kolobia? We know she still had Canna’s medallion and Saben’s horse to lose there, because Amberion had said she could keep them. More or less (and there’s the rub) everything else was either paid over as training fee or put aside in store – from which some of her equipment, including Socks, was re-issued to her for the expedition.
From the gnomes’ point of view, when she later quit Fin Panir in distress and needed a job, should’t she have gone to them (which I presume wouldn’t have suited the gods at all)?
Comment by Richard — May 26, 2012 @ 2:43 am
Jenn, when I posted #199 in that spoiler space, it was over a week before Daniel came in with #200.
Comment by Richard — May 26, 2012 @ 3:24 am
I’m only just beginning to appreciate how those gnomes are in big, big trouble.
Going back to ELizabeth’s previous blog where if unclaimed stone is going for free, gnomes cannot just freely take it, but must still deposit its value.
Gird’s agreement to respect gnome claims surely cannot mean gnomes can stake a new claim anywhere they like, evicting humans already there. I too think Arcolin is getting a fair deal, having one corner of his domain kept free of orcs in return for giving up some not-very-good grazing he wasn’t using (and couldn’t have used while orcs were there). But that only accounts for the incidental surface, not the stonemass underneath (not Arcolin’s to give, nor any human’s).
How about this as a human parallel for what Dragon did to them: the au pair girl, supposed to stay strictly indoors minding the house while the owner is at work, goes downtown for a couple of hours with friends. While she is out, someone (a “friend” of her friends, maybe) breaks in and ransacks it. So the owner, coming home, refuses to shelter or feed her a moment longer. She is thrown out on the street – and because she hasn’t the money to repay the owner for what has been stolen, without her things.
By their lights, don’t the gnomes not just owe Dragon for the lost eggs, and Arcolin/Mikeli for the land Dragon had to embargo (as they said to Arcolin), but also Kieri for everyone killed and everything burnt in Lyonya by scathefire? That’s what I mean by big, big trouble.
Comment by Jennifer — May 30, 2012 @ 9:27 pm
I’m curious if there has been a situation like this with gnomes before. My impression was that outcast gnomes were typically fairly solitary – working their way in the world until they can redeem themselves, if they can. Has there ever been a whole clan or sub-clan cast out, women, children and everything? If they decide that they want to live outside gnomish law and make their own community do they have the freedom to do that? Or do the other gnomes still regard them as under gnome law and authority, even though they are cast out.
In my experience, casting out can work both ways. You can’t always throw someone out of a community, but expect them to still live by that community’s laws and traditions. If exile is the ultimate punishment, what more can they do to them?